OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED Slip on Molle sleeve for 2" duty belts and straps

WhispTech

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#1
If you look at backpacks, duty belts and some plate carriers they use 2" straps with 2" buckles that are bare and nothing on them. So my idea is a molle panel that can be slipped onto these bare portions so that you can attach molle gear onto it. I figured to start the panel should be 3" x 6.5" and have 2 rows of molle with 4 columns. Be made of 1000 denier nylon with appropriate webbing for the molle. The back would have an elastic panel with both sides open to fit a belt thru. I don't know how stretchy elastic material is but a 2" buckle is 2.25" in width with a depth of .5" so figured either the elastic panel would be 2.5" or 2.25" depending on how elastic it is. Think 2.25 would work fine and should be enough give to get over buckles and would start at this measurement first for the elastic panel and if possible maybe even go down to the 2" and see if it has enough give to stretch over the buckle when placing it on. As mentioned unsure how stretchy of material you may have in the shop. The molle rows will be 1.5" x 1" standard with .25" on both sides/ends to sew a reinforcement line on both ends. When attaching the elastic panel orient to top portion. Logos would be sewn in at bottom section on seem.

Colour for prototype if done I would like in Olive Drab/Green or black.

I also see if these sold that they would be in sets of two.

Blueprint I drew up is below with all measurements for face and back of it. I am assuming whoever if designed would add for the extra material for folds / hems and what not and you guys would know those measurements better then me.
 

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WhispTech

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#2
Also was thinking that between the two layers for the main base some form of rigid material like plastic or such that is usually found in the straps to keep them rigid but still pliable. May not even need the 2nd layer of 1000d in my drawing and just have the first layer over lap the rigid panel and then have the elastic panel on back side. Reason for this support is so that the panel doesnt shift and roll around the 2" strap.
 

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Sandspoor

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#3
Very very nice idea! Bear in mind that they must have the ability to attach molle vertically (shoulder strap) or horizontally (belt). Maybe make the front side of the sleeve with molle one way and the reverse side with molle the other way?
 

WhispTech

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#4
I am only worried about Horizontally. If they want to make a separate vertical one then go nuts but usually strapping that is vertical has webbing, d-rings and elastic bands to run your gear on. Well at least all Backpacks and gear I have thus far does. Usually only things that are bare are the horizontal straps as shown in those pics. Also having one that has two sides with two options would bulk it up and thicken it up and I am into as light as weight as possible for my gear. Also most times vertical straps are not 2". Anyways trying to keep this as simplistic but useful as possible in which this idea already has multiple items it could be used on. Could also be made into different lengths.

1 column equals 1.5"
End equals .25" and two ends so x2

4 columns = 6.5" (1.5 x 4 + .25 x 2)
5 Columns = 8"
6 Columns = 9.5"

The lengths of pieces as they get larger can be used on less items. Why I started at the 4 column.
 
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Sandspoor

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#5
I am only worried about Horizontally. If they want to make a separate vertical one then go nuts but usually strapping that is vertical has webbing, d-rings and elastic bands to run your gear on. Well at least all Backpacks and gear I have thus far does. Usually only things that are bare are the horizontal straps as shown in those pics. Also having one that has two sides with two options would bulk it up and thicken it up and I am into as light as weight as possible for my gear. Also most times vertical straps are not 2". Anyways trying to keep this as simplistic but useful as possible in which this idea already has multiple items it could be used on. Could also be made into different lengths.

1 column equals 1.5"
End equals .25" and two ends so x2

4 columns = 6.5" (1.5 x 4 + .25 x 2)
5 Columns = 8"
6 Columns = 9.5"

The lengths of pieces as they get larger can be used on less items. Why I started at the column.
Gotit. 👍🏻
 

WhispTech

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#6
Here is what vertical would look like that I drew up for ya. You could flip it upside down if you wanted the molle to start at the top. Only issue is how to mount it. Issue with being most likely a backpack shoulder strap and those straps don't abide by any rules on thickness or design. They sometime have vertical webbing on them. Sometime vertical with d-rings and horizontal elastic straps. Sometimes no vertical webbing and have a couple horizontal webbing straps with the webbing internally for support. Sometimes they have it all. So why I steered away from that as well since just to much to deal with. A good portion however have 2" waist straps or straps that are horizontal that are bare and easy to work with. Anyways there is a blueprint for ya go nuts lol. This design is based off the measurements of the 4 column reversed. Also note the issue of slippage if it was sitting on a vertical strap and it would fall down and would need some form of attachment to keep it in place. An other reason why the horizontal one is just simplier.
 

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Sandspoor

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#7
My backpacks have all rather wide and thick padded waist belts, but my work-harnass have both 2” shoulder straps and hip strap. It probably depends on what gear you use. This is why I tend to focus on products that have a wider multi purpose use and not too specific for one role - it is just easier seen from a marketing perspective.

As I said in my first post, you have a very good idea and I’m all for the design - I just added my 2 cents...
 

WhispTech

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#8
My backpacks have all rather wide and thick padded waist belts, but my work-harnass have both 2” shoulder straps and hip strap. It probably depends on what gear you use. This is why I tend to focus on products that have a wider multi purpose use and not too specific for one role - it is just easier seen from a marketing perspective.

As I said in my first post, you have a very good idea and I’m all for the design - I just added my 2 cents...
You are welcome to your 2 cents.

I just don't want it double sided due to weight concerns and applying it to the belt were I may need to shimmy or whatever over a buckle and the elastic panel would be in the middle of two 1000d panels plus a rigid panel. Not easily gotten too. This is why I rather see it as two products. I know the harness you are talking about for painters on buildings, window washers and for safety at heights on whatever machinery. So yeah you could do a vertical for that and have it sit above the sternum strap or the lower end to the waist strap and have it sit there and not worry about it slipping where ever. If you want it positioned in a certain spot how ever you have to redesign the mounting method.
 

Sandspoor

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#9
...you could always make it so it folds over the strap and close with velcro so you could position it over loops or other straps without that dreaded “shimmying”.
But again that is my way of thinking - same as I’m not very concerned about an extra 100 grams of Cordura.
 

WhispTech

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#10
...you could always make it so it folds over the strap and close with velcro so you could position it over loops or other straps without that dreaded “shimmying”.
But again that is my way of thinking - same as I’m not very concerned about an extra 100 grams of Cordura.
My initial design was like a battle belt and fold over and such. On my way to work so scan it in later. However now adding velcro and more stiching and adding more weight. Grams add up which turn into ounces to pounds and what I am steering away from. Trying to keep this panel as light as possible. As you can tell pretty set on how it would be designed and put multiple days of thought into it and has changed a couple times since my original drawing.
 

Rin

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#13
So it is a molle sleeve that can be slip onto a belt or backpack shoulder strap? But the width of belts and shoulder strap differs from one to another, which can be a problem to cover. Any further detailed idea? @WhispTech
 

WhispTech

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#14
So it is a molle sleeve that can be slip onto a belt or backpack shoulder strap? But the width of belts and shoulder strap differs from one to another, which can be a problem to cover. Any further detailed idea? @WhispTech
No, it got side tracked in the conversation there and is meant for waist straps. Shown in the first post I circled and pointed to the waist strap to backpack, plate carrier and 2" duty belts that all have 2 " waits straps with buckles. This sleeve is meant for those items that usually have a 2" belt or strap that is horizontal. Majority of large backpacks have 2" strapping for waist. Also cross draw vests have 2" duty belts and some light plate carriers. Then 2" duty belts. This idea came up in two parts. 1. when it came mounting items the plate carrier and 2. being at work as a security guard we can wear a duty belt but we can not wear a full blown battle belt. However we sometimes have item we use that use molle straps. IE: small first aid pouch, medical glove pouch and other smaller items.

Small backpacks usually use 1.75" or 1.5" but as soon as you get into medium and large backpacks they use 2" straps for the waist.

I could also see it being use on smaller belts and is why I suggested to have the support stiff panel in it. I went with this size of 6.5" because that would support medium and large individual waist sizes and that would allow this panel to fit between majority of duty pant belt loops and between the support straps on some cross draw vests.. It also would work with both sides of a backpack and light plate carrier.

If it was made in black that would be fine as well since duty colours are usually black for security and police gear.

The only dimension that needs to be played with is that back stretchy panel be it 2" that has enough stretch to fit over a 2" buckle due to some are not removable or if it would be a bit larger. 2" to start for best fit over 2" belt itself but again depends on the stretch of the material and if it will fit over the buckle..
 
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WhispTech

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#15
For people that are small waist size there panels would have to be smaller and only be 3 columns molle.

3 columns = 5" (1.5x3 + .25x2) for the two sides)

The 6.5 4 column is for medium to large.

Also it should come in a two pack due to being support both sides of these items.
 
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Andy Z.

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#16
For people that are small waist size there panels would have to be smaller and only be 3 columns molle.

3 columns = 5" (1.5x3 + .25x2) for the two sides)

The 6.5 4 column is for medium to large.

Also it should come in a two pack due to being support both sides of these items.
I am still confused about the way you attach this panel? how could it be set up on the waist straps of backpack or plate carrier?
Does the pic below show it correctly? the strap go through the elastic panel?
sketch 2.jpg
If so, here has a problem: it will slide to right or left if we attach it in this way. what do you think about it?
 
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WhispTech

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#17
I am still confused about the way you attach this panel? how could it be set up on the waist straps of backpack or plate carrier?
Does the pic below show it correctly? the strap go through the elastic panel?
View attachment 1536
If so, here has a problem: it will slide to right or left if we attach it in this way. what do you think about it?
Yes it slides thru the elastic panel as shown in your pics. Yes there would be some movement in some cases. Is there not elastic stretchy material that has some form of neoprene rubberized side that is stretchy as well? Also as mentioned this is why the elastic back panel would be needed to be tested to see what size it would be be it 2" , 2.25" and such to make sure it fit over the buckle but also maintain some tightness on the belt itself. That would help with it. But in some cases and the fact those will be tight to your body they shouldn't shift that bad. On the job I have gloves, flashlight and phone just with loose loops on a 1.75" belt and hardly any shifting. I run them agaisnt the belt loops. This item on regular belt and pants would do same.

Also want to point out that in your pic on the bottom make sure that it does not have that upper and lower lip. This panel should have a height of exactly 3". That is exact space for 2 rows of molle at 1" each plus the inner row at 1" on the front side. Also just 4 columns of molle at 6.5" at most in width as shown in my first drawing/blueprint.

Great sketch though of the idea. :)
 
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WhispTech

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#19
Everyone is so focused on it moving and shifting and thinking that is a problem instead of what it could accomplish. You look at anything and even items that 1tg make themselves that they claim will go on a belt will shift. Majority of security/police gear are just loops on belt.

If you really want I could list tons of items that use loops. We have been using loops on gear for centuries.

My idea is very simplistic, should be kept simplistic and stop being over thought.
 
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WhispTech

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#21
Since people are so worried about shifting I will explain with my exact design how you stop shifting.

1. When using a outer 2" duty belt it is usually attached to the inner belt with the keepers. These keepers can also be placed to stop pouches from moving around.
2. If placed between pant belt loops there is minor movement. (depends on the pants and fit but its possible)
3. Based off number 2 depending on fit, amount of belt loops (since some pants have way more) or just your personal placement cut a slit in the elastic panel in the appropriate spot and feed the belt pant loop into that spot.
4. This is for all regular webbing that is found on plate carriers, some belts(depending on quality but even then this could still be done) and backpacks and even if mounted vertically use some screw together rivets. Rivets come in all types of sizes and materials. I am positive you could find the right one to work with this item. Just needs a big lip on it. Poke a hole in the webbing and the elastic sleeve in appropriate spot and affix. You could also use seat belt buttons. Those fit thru webbing perfectly and the extra thickness of the stretchy elastic material would be nothing. Could just affix permanently with permanent rivets as well.

Personally I like the seat belt buttons but for thicker duty belts need a thicker rivet. I would throw in the seat belt buttons with the kit but if people wanted to affix to something else I would suggest going to a sewing/craft store and buy the appropriate rivets.

You could also sew on two support squares of either nylon or pieces of the rigid panel that are 1 inch by inch in the middle and both sides of the elastic panel for the rivets to go thru so as to not rip the elastic panel.

This for anyone so concerned about shifting would solve their issue and maintain my main design as it is!!!!!
 

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WhispTech

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#22
Now on some webbing you can actually move the threads around and fit a rivet thru without cutting the webbing. On thicker webbing may have to cut a hole and that may weaken the belt at that point. I wouldn't want to do that to a support harness and such. Backpack straps and whatever I don't see an issue. Also this would fix the slipping issue vertically if you made one for vertical straps. Still must be pretty sturdy for them to do this with the seat belt buttons which again is my favourite solution of the bunch for regular thickness webbing. They also make thinner seat belt buttons as well that are similar. the thinner the material the better on those rivets or buttons. Also make sure they are the flush style seat belt buttons due to some have spikes that go thru and are not flush.


Here is a quick pic I drew up in a min and lazy on due to really this isn't an issue and just a solution for those that think it is.
 

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WhispTech

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#23
So after all that revamped my original drawing. Made the stretchy panel split in two just to accommodate belt loops. Added the two 1" x 1" rigid back pieces that would have holes in them to use seat belt buttons or rivets. Front is original design. Still only thing I am wondering about is what size the stretchy material would have to be for height if it would be 2" exact and stretchy enough to fit over a 2" buckle or if it would have to have more height.
 

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WhispTech

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#24
And this pic is just a concept but I can see it failing. More slits which isn't an issue if need be for belt loops on pants and can be put into my original concept. However having the stretchy panel centered like that would cause over hang and items would sag/droop. This is one of the things on the new battle belts they changed. Belts no longer go thru the center or have that extra material above the belt line. I showed one of your staff one of my videos (youtube channel) on such a battle belt and the comparison of old vs new and you will see that where the inner duty belt affixes to the battle belt it is at the top now. That corrected sag/droop of gear and over hang. Anyways I am done thinking about this shifting issue. Its an issue with most gear regardless on belts.
 

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Andy Z.

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#25
Yes it slides thru the elastic panel as shown in your pics. Yes there would be some movement in some cases. Is there not elastic stretchy material that has some form of neoprene rubberized side that is stretchy as well? Also as mentioned this is why the elastic back panel would be needed to be tested to see what size it would be be it 2" , 2.25" and such to make sure it fit over the buckle but also maintain some tightness on the belt itself. That would help with it. But in some cases and the fact those will be tight to your body they shouldn't shift that bad. On the job I have gloves, flashlight and phone just with loose loops on a 1.75" belt and hardly any shifting. I run them agaisnt the belt loops. This item on regular belt and pants would do same.

Also want to point out that in your pic on the bottom make sure that it does not have that upper and lower lip. This panel should have a height of exactly 3". That is exact space for 2 rows of molle at 1" each plus the inner row at 1" on the front side. Also just 4 columns of molle at 6.5" at most in width as shown in my first drawing/blueprint.

Great sketch though of the idea. :)
Let's do the 4 column as your sketch. We will do two piece of it and let' see whether it will work or not.
 
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Andy Z.

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#27
Still only thing I am wondering about is what size the stretchy material would have to be for height if it would be 2" exact and stretchy enough to fit over a 2" buckle or if it would have to have more height.
I think we can try the 2" first and see whether the buckle can go through it or not.
 
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WhispTech

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#28
How does it work? I can't image that. Could you give any example of it. it will be better if there has pics.
Pic was above about that idea and showed in blueprint. Its just some rigid or webbing cut too 1'' x 1" sewn onto the middle of the stretchy material on the left and right side. You could place them 0.5" away from the edges. Then in the middle of those sew in like you would for a button an eyelet like you see on a shirt. This was just an idea and doesn't need to be done along with the slit in the back stretchy panel for a belt loop. It had to do with the shifting that everyone is so worried about and to be used with rivets or seat belt buttons which I have shown and just some ideas that up to you if you want to do or not. Problem is slit really should be custom to the person themselves and due to pants have belt loops at different spots and individuals have different waist sizes. Also standard webbing is fine when it comes to belts but some belts are double ply and thicker and duty belts are thicker so choosing a rivet would be something you buy on the side and would do custom yourself if you wanted it permanent in spot. Shown again in pic below. As far as I am concerned don't worry about the shifting issue and don't do any of those features. Items with loops shift and anyone that has done any type of service would know this. I would make the item first just with the stretchy back panel.

Also when testing the size needed for back elastic panel. I suggest just sewing that stretchy material onto a practice panel and angle it and then fit the buckle thru and see how far it gets thru and then you have your measurement. Shown in pic below of just a practice piece with an angle to fit buckle.

Also don't forget the rigid layer in between the front and back panels to keep these firm and rigid so they don't fold in on themselves and help with gear.

Do them in black if made. Easier to test for me since can use with duty outfit as well. Thanks.
 

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Rin

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#30
Problem is slit really should be custom to the person themselves and due to pants have belt loops at different spots and individuals have different waist sizes.
This problem still havent been fixed. As you said, if this product to be put on the market, due to the differences among different belt loop and waist size, it will become a problem for us to find a way to meet the real needs of our customers.