GEARTESTING [DOG GEAR] Service Dog Mobility Assistance Harness

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
1. Padding
The thickness can be from 2mm to 20mm.
2. Strap
1) What I've outlined above & below: Make harness barely longer to accommodate an additional strap along with other changes.
2) Make the harness smaller so the 1 strap underneath sits right behind the front legs still with changes to front strap.
Make it shorter will be unable to add MOLLE system on it. so I will prefer the first option. to extend it so another strap can be added.
3. tweek the front strap angle and adjustability
Parallel to the ground. will try in this way
@Andy Z. As you will see I've been working with my in-house designer at the OneTigris US Embassy here in Florida. What we found I think is a good thing for several reasons including saving time and not requiring a redesign, better fit, less shifting and less bowing just to name a few. And just remember this was in mock up mode not final sewn product and without padding. We looked at the harness from every angle both on and off BigLenny and the assumptions are still looking good in regards to parallel front strap and firmer padding. With the front strap moved up on our sample harness the back strap was a 1-2 finger gap to behind front legs. So what I'm saying is by moving the front strap up the back followed into the proper position. No need to make bigger or add another strap. The entire harness fit better, snugger and felt more like a wet-suit than a comfy t-shirt this time and I don't mean that in a negative way.

So everything is the same here except the front straps top anchor position. The bottom edge of the nylon strap lines up with the bottom edge of the last row of Velcro. I put the red 1TG patch on that row to highlight it for reference. Unfortunately the Embassy does not have an upholstery machine in house so we could not stitch. The plan is to get the straps stitched this week. I will let you know as soon as it is done and how it works.

Until it is stitched I cannot comment anymore on the harness under-belly and the strap being able to move freely through the harness. Or if that is something that might be of use regardless to assist with sizing.

What I can tell you is that minor angle change basically addressed all of the things you and I were worried about (or I was worried about and made you worried about :ROFLMAO:). Like I said the fit changed substantially in a positive way as viewed by a user (me). I test walked a little in house just as I would using for stability/balance and harness stayed fixed even when I over-exaggerated the stress in one direction or the other. I tried the rear handle as if using to assist propulsion in wheelchair and harness didn't move at all. I tried front handle as if using to assist standing up from seated position and again no movement to speak of. I pulled on main handle straight up almost like I was trying to lift BigLenny and very little bowing especially in comparison to the first try on.

@Andy Z. Please let me know me know you got this, understand, if you have any questions and where we are in the process?

1. Padding
The thickness can be from 2mm to 20mm.
Because I'm not there to see in person or inside the harness it's tough, but I'd say 2mm to 2.5mm. Like I said originally the point is not thicker, but firmer. That being said and not knowing the thickness of the cotton I'd say if cotton under 2mm then go with the minimum of 2mm and see how it looks and feels.
2. Strap
1) What I've outlined above & below: Make harness barely longer to accommodate an additional strap along with other changes.
2) Make the harness smaller so the 1 strap underneath sits right behind the front legs still with changes to front strap.
Make it shorter will be unable to add MOLLE system on it. so I will prefer the first option. to extend it so another strap can be added.

Awesome!!! We are both on the same page. I just wanted to make sure you were awake and paying attention. Haha!!! As an owner of a big service dog I'd rather error on the side of more control (meaning more straps) than less control. I don't have the strength I used to and Len is one strong boy who can be very hard headed. Much like his Dad! PLEASE JUST REMEMBER!!!! One of the greatest selling points of this harness is the small footprint/harness size. So only add as little as absolutely necessary. PLEASE!!!
3. tweek the front strap angle and adjustability
Parallel to the ground. will try in this way

I do understand this may not be easy given the harness under-body. I still think either way the strap needs to be able to move freely back and forth through the harness just like a belt through belt loops. As designer is looking into this if there are issues we can re-address at that time meaning if the strap needs to maintain a slight downward angle. Maybe it could be straightened up a bit if not all the way.

Anything else that needs to be addressed? If so just let me know. I'm always here for you man! Other than that have a great weekend and talk soon. BigT & BigLenny

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BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
Thank you for the clarification on the Vests. I measured our second dog the Am Staff and he should be able to wear a large so he can have Vitas hand me down when the new service vest comes out. Right now I have a few new harness on ebay to raise funds for them, so we'll see how that goes. I dont' think ebay is as effective for selling things as it used to be. I may have spent more time on ADI site than I recall, as it is familiar and I know I found it early on in my searching. I"m sure for me it was cost that kept me from getting involved with them, plus I had a dog who was an autoalerter, so I just had to put the training on him. I had a great bunch of friends then who were very helpful in making that happen for us. I've had 4 head injuries, the last one in 2009 which left me unable to multi task and function as an RN. There are alot of things in that time period, up until relatively recently I just do not recall without a lot of help. I originally was with a psychiatric service dog group, due to PTSD, which as fallen by the way side as far as I know. I glad you have had a good experience with ADI. They may very well set the standard at some point.
OK off to see what else is sitting around here I need to sell! I need new gear:)!
Haha!!! No worries. You sound like me. Always need/want new gear. Yeah I really have no interaction with ADI. The service dog org that I received my dog from is accredited by them is all. That's why I don't know much about them either. I also know about he recall thing for different reasons, but I know what it's like to have no concept of time. I have a great memory of the past like 2011 back to like 1970's, but I can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday. Haha!!! I have organizers and to-do lists on my phone, computer, paper, post-its, everywhere and I still can't keep it straight without a very wonderful support team. Good luck with your selling and pleasure meeting.
 

Rin

MAD CAT
Staff member
MAD CAT
May 15, 2018
851
770
92
Hi @Leah Nosack AKC CGC Evaluator and Trainer , this harness we are now working with @BigT is actually the FIRE WATCHER Dog Harness, aka OneTigris Tactical Service Vest Dog Harness from Chewy.com. So far for professional assistant dog harness especially its handle, we need more help on it. And this codesign with BigT, our buddy, still has some adjustments to go on with.
 
Sep 21, 2018
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Sounds like it will be ideal when its finished, I look forward to seeing the finished product. Thank you for the reply!


Hi @Leah Nosack AKC CGC Evaluator and Trainer , this harness we are now working with @BigT is actually the FIRE WATCHER Dog Harness, aka OneTigris Tactical Service Vest Dog Harness from Chewy.com. So far for professional assistant dog harness especially its handle, we need more help on it. And this codesign with BigT, our buddy, still has some adjustments to go on with.
 

Andy Z.

Master Sergeant ☆
Staff member
Jan 17, 2018
882
795
197
1. Padding
The thickness can be from 2mm to 20mm.
Because I'm not there to see in person or inside the harness it's tough, but I'd say 2mm to 2.5mm. Like I said originally the point is not thicker, but firmer. That being said and not knowing the thickness of the cotton I'd say if cotton under 2mm then go with the minimum of 2mm and see how it looks and feels.
Exactly is not about the thickness but the thicker it is the firmer it will be. 2mm will be bended easily when you pull the harness.

2. Strap
1) What I've outlined above & below: Make harness barely longer to accommodate an additional strap along with other changes.
2) Make the harness smaller so the 1 strap underneath sits right behind the front legs still with changes to front strap.
Make it shorter will be unable to add MOLLE system on it. so I will prefer the first option. to extend it so another strap can be added.

Awesome!!! We are both on the same page. I just wanted to make sure you were awake and paying attention. Haha!!! As an owner of a big service dog I'd rather error on the side of more control (meaning more straps) than less control. I don't have the strength I used to and Len is one strong boy who can be very hard headed. Much like his Dad! PLEASE JUST REMEMBER!!!! One of the greatest selling points of this harness is the small footprint/harness size. So only add as little as absolutely necessary. PLEASE!!!
Why crossed out this paragraph? Is it necessary for us to follow this point still?

So only add as little as absolutely necessary. PLEASE!!!
How little you expect for the straps? 0.5" strap or?

where we are in the process?
We are still struggling with the design. we need to confirm all the points you put forward.
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
Exactly is not about the thickness but the thicker it is the firmer it will be. 2mm will be bended easily when you pull the harness.


Why crossed out this paragraph? Is it necessary for us to follow this point still?


How little you expect for the straps? 0.5" strap or?


We are still struggling with the design. we need to confirm all the points you put forward.
@Andy Z. - For answering the majority of your answers I'd refer back to #201 with the pics. I understand your point about the thickness and easy to bend. If the harness kind of holds its shape without being stiff is kind of the sweet spot in my mind. Personally I'd error on the smaller side. We don't need to confuse people about the purpose of the harness and too thick they will think it is a life jacket.

I crossed out the paragraph about adding another strap under the belly/chest area because after further playing with the sample I do not believe it is needed. Keep strap under belly/chest the way it is. Refer to pics in thread #201 and please change location of front strap. By doing this corrects the majority of the bending/bowing.

Not a lot of changes now. I went back to the drawing board and started over. I spent 3 solid days Friday - Sunday working through it because it was bothering me. Something just wasn't making sense. So I wore BigLenny and my family out. I had harnesses strung across the living room and finally after two days had it down to 3 for my research. I finally figured out what I think our real issue was causing the exaggerated bowing/bending. I believe the front strap anchor point to the harness was causing the majority of our issues. Once I removed the stitching and moved the straps the bowing/bending improved dramatically even without a secure stitch. Tiny change in front strap also bring the underbelly strap more toward back of front legs where I feel it also further helps with stability.

I tried sending you a text via Skype because I did not want you guys working on a new design or anything. I know you are busy, so please tell me if there is a way I can help make this easier or more convenient for you. I'm around contact me however is convenient for you if you'd like to discuss. If you have any questions or comments please let me know.
 

Andy Z.

Master Sergeant ☆
Staff member
Jan 17, 2018
882
795
197
I crossed out the paragraph about adding another strap under the belly/chest area because after further playing with the sample I do not believe it is needed. Keep strap under belly/chest the way it is. Refer to pics in thread #201 and please change location of front strap. By doing this corrects the majority of the bending/bowing.
If we don't add a new strap then should we change the position of the chest strap? or just keep them in the same place?

I believe the front strap anchor point to the harness was causing the majority of our issues. Once I removed the stitching and moved the straps the bowing/bending improved dramatically even without a secure stitch. Tiny change in front strap also bring the underbelly strap more toward back of front legs where I feel it also further helps with stability.
Do you mean the changes you did (parallel with the ground) for this dog harness works for better stability?
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
If we don't add a new strap then should we change the position of the chest strap? or just keep them in the same place?


Do you mean the changes you did (parallel with the ground) for this dog harness works for better stability?
Keep chest strap in same place. When I changed the front strap it allowed better fit which actually moved chest strap forward.

Yes, changes I did on this harness, parallel to ground work for better fit/stability/less bowing. My designer & I were pretty shocked.

I think we were treating symptoms instead of the problem. I'm hopeful this resolves the issue.
 

Andy Z.

Master Sergeant ☆
Staff member
Jan 17, 2018
882
795
197
Keep chest strap in same place. When I changed the front strap it allowed better fit which actually moved chest strap forward.

Yes, changes I did on this harness, parallel to ground work for better fit/stability/less bowing. My designer & I were pretty shocked.

I think we were treating symptoms instead of the problem. I'm hopeful this resolves the issue.
After you changed it, does it fit now? is it still loose?
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
After you changed it, does it fit now? is it still loose?
Andy after moving the front straps the harness fits better & adjusts easier, but the front straps are still a little big. The only way I could reattach the front straps was with pins. This enabled me to test the theory better & see overall effect on harness. I could not shorten the front straps because they are attached to the under/bottom harness. That's what kept me from being able to make it fit properly. Even though I couldn't completely fit or anchor front straps I was still able to see the benefits I've laid out to you. So much so I'm as jacked up as ever for the next version and cannot wait to thoroughly test this harness.
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
After you changed it, does it fit now? is it still loose?
@Andy Z. Here are the pics I discussed with you. BigLenny wanted me to include the head shots because he was so good modeling and testing for his dad. BigLenny says he wants to hear you have one up at your desk at work, so he knows you are thinking about him! Take a look and let me know if you have any questions or comments. Have a good weekend! Pics will be in 2 posts hopefully back to back.
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Sep 21, 2018
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@Andy Z. Here are the pics I discussed with you. BigLenny wanted me to include the head shots because he was so good modeling and testing for his dad. BigLenny says he wants to hear you have one up at your desk at work, so he knows you are thinking about him! Take a look and let me know if you have any questions or comments. Have a good weekend! Pics will be in 2 posts hopefully back to back.
Hey Big T, after having used the Fire Watcher for a few days now I'm looking at this pictures of the changes and am agreeing 100% with this being improvements that are needed if this is going to function as a "service dog'" vest. The other thing I'm going to go back through the posts and look for wasnt there talk about a felt, fleece, some type of extra protection padding on the straps so we can fasten it down without rubs? I like this front V coming up the chest and the cross straps excellent idea! I know you all know this and I got to the party late, but I'm excited about this new vest. After using this one and mentally making notes of the things I need to adjust, pad and change on it, I thought Wait they are already doing all those things LOL
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
Hey Big T, after having used the Fire Watcher for a few days now I'm looking at this pictures of the changes and am agreeing 100% with this being improvements that are needed if this is going to function as a "service dog'" vest. The other thing I'm going to go back through the posts and look for wasnt there talk about a felt, fleece, some type of extra protection padding on the straps so we can fasten it down without rubs? I like this front V coming up the chest and the cross straps excellent idea! I know you all know this and I got to the party late, but I'm excited about this new vest. After using this one and mentally making notes of the things I need to adjust, pad and change on it, I thought Wait they are already doing all those things LOL
Leah - No apologies necessary! I for one & I'm pretty sure in this one case I can speak for the 1TG Team when I say your comments are welcome & reassuring. It's great to hear from someone who has not been part of the process every step of the way. Sometimes I feel like I get blinders on unintentionally because I'm so close. We've been working really hard to focus in on revisions for v2.0 & it has been a process. It makes me extremely happy to hear that you approve of the proposed changes. I've done research getting feedback from my service dog org handlers, but it means even more to have outside corroboration. For now on let's just say you were fashionably late! Haha!!! Please do not hesitate to post. @Andy Z. and I just talked about final changes/revisions I think Friday. I will circle back with him & hopefully we have an updated sample soon!!!
 
Sep 21, 2018
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Thank you Big T, I was trying to go back through the thread and see what the idea was for padding on for the straps going under the belly and got too distracted looking for it. The multiple colors, reds, yellows, black and format of the forum are a bit hard on me at times to read through. What are the plans for padding? I'm thinking of going to Joannes and looking for some felt pieces or polar fleece to pad it with.
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
Thank you Big T, I was trying to go back through the thread and see what the idea was for padding on for the straps going under the belly and got too distracted looking for it. The multiple colors, reds, yellows, black and format of the forum are a bit hard on me at times to read through. What are the plans for padding? I'm thinking of going to Joannes and looking for some felt pieces or polar fleece to pad it with.
Leah, Haha!!! Really no worries. You are all over it! It's actually funny you asking. I just brought this up to @Andy Z. that we need some kind of "Soft pad insert on the collar/straps to prevent chafing on your dog's neck/chest/belly." Again it is very nice to have a second opinion from a service dog user. Especially when we agree!!! No, I'm just kidding!!! Haha!!! I really do appreciate you even attempting to follow the design with me thread. I know it can be difficult as I've even tried it reading my own stuff and found myself lost. The information you share from reading the thread and now from your experience with your new vest is very beneficial and I cannot thank you enough. It has helped me a ton. You affirm certain things I had concluded on my own research, which left me really wondering the validity. Like I said we've been working a long time and the blinders go on sometimes. Sometimes they need to be removed. So thank you! Keep sharing... BigT
 

Andy Z.

Master Sergeant ☆
Staff member
Jan 17, 2018
882
795
197
Leah, Haha!!! Really no worries. You are all over it! It's actually funny you asking. I just brought this up to @Andy Z. that we need some kind of "Soft pad insert on the collar/straps to prevent chafing on your dog's neck/chest/belly." Again it is very nice to have a second opinion from a service dog user. Especially when we agree!!! No, I'm just kidding!!! Haha!!! I really do appreciate you even attempting to follow the design with me thread. I know it can be difficult as I've even tried it reading my own stuff and found myself lost. The information you share from reading the thread and now from your experience with your new vest is very beneficial and I cannot thank you enough. It has helped me a ton. You affirm certain things I had concluded on my own research, which left me really wondering the validity. Like I said we've been working a long time and the blinders go on sometimes. Sometimes they need to be removed. So thank you! Keep sharing... BigT
What we need to change for the current harness
1. Padding both harness and straps;

2. Change the direction from vertical to horizontal;
3. Measurements
Neck Girth: 27 - 28"
Chest Girth: 39 - 40"

Back Length: 29 - 30"

NEXT
1. Please confirm all the points above;

2. Please take a photo from the side view of Lennon. I want to see how the changed harness works.
3. Then we can start to make it.

Hi BigT sorry for the delay of progress. For better processing this co-design program, I will suggest to use the bullet points and keep each points short, simple and understandable. As it's really busy recently, we need to imporve the effectiveness. :ROFLMAO:
 

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
What we need to change for the current harness
1. Padding both harness and straps;

2. Change the direction from vertical to horizontal;
3. Measurements
Neck Girth: 27 - 28"
Chest Girth: 39 - 40"

Back Length: 29 - 30"

NEXT
1. Please confirm all the points above;

2. Please take a photo from the side view of Lennon. I want to see how the changed harness works.
3. Then we can start to make it.

Hi BigT sorry for the delay of progress. For better processing this co-design program, I will suggest to use the bullet points and keep each points short, simple and understandable. As it's really busy recently, we need to imporve the effectiveness. :ROFLMAO:
Agreed man. I talked to Gill about same thing. I'm on way to Dr & spent better part of last night/morn in emergency room after a fall. Got another blow to head, more stitches, more pain in the ass, etc. I'm just saying I'll get a summary together that is concise with pics. I agree process needs improvement. Talk soon my man! BigT
 
Sep 21, 2018
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take care Big T, ouch, must be clutz week, I had a long line burn from being stupid and slow, continued on with my day and ignored it. Dressed it that night 2 days later, not good and looked like cellulitis, but its under control now. I was here checking out your first aid kit . That was one thing I was going to add, that just moved up on the list lol. I hope your spine is good to you after your fall.

Agreed man. I talked to Gill about same thing. I'm on way to Dr & spent better part of last night/morn in emergency room after a fall. Got another blow to head, more stitches, more pain in the ass, etc. I'm just saying I'll get a summary together that is concise with pics. I agree process needs improvement. Talk soon my man! BigT
 
Likes: Andy Z.

BigT

Sergeant ☆☆
Feb 1, 2018
468
490
123
Florida, United States
take care Big T, ouch, must be clutz week, I had a long line burn from being stupid and slow, continued on with my day and ignored it. Dressed it that night 2 days later, not good and looked like cellulitis, but its under control now. I was here checking out your first aid kit . That was one thing I was going to add, that just moved up on the list lol. I hope your spine is good to you after your fall.
Thank you Leah and you too!!! In the scheme of things I was very lucky. I'm a firm believer in being prepared & in carrying at least a minimal E Kit for your canine. That is being prepared for everything except for getting up from bed and using the restroom during the night. Haha!!! Thanks again and have a nice weekend!!!